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View Full Version : Buying and setting up a new ETC unit



rtfm
02-03-07, 10:11 PM
I want to install a Mitsubishi ETC (the thin one) in my bike. I'm not too interested in the bike model for the usual reasons. I've read the May 2006 (http://www.gaijinriders.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=5079) thread about using a car unit set up as a Kei car, and after visiting several shops I am in the following situation:

The staff at the AutoTec on Kampachi west speak good English and say that car parts shops don't have a "bike" option in their system. They also do a lot of inhaling and chin scratching at the K-car option. However, they are happy to sell me an unregistered boxed unit for about Y12,000.

My bike dealer as well as the local nirinkan carry the bike ETC (which I dont want) and insist that it's quite impossible to use the car models.

Clem mentioned in the above thread before he moved away that his company did their own setups, and thus had no problems.

So, my question is this: Can anyone recommend a shop in Tokyo/ Kanagawa/ Yokohama/ Yokosuka that will register and/or sell me a Mitsubishi EP-736 set up for a K-car/ bike? I haven't bought it yet and I'm happy to go one-stop shopping.

haildamage
02-03-07, 11:53 PM
I want to install a Mitsubishi ETC (the thin one) in my bike. I'm not too interested in the bike model for the usual reasons. I've read the May 2006 (http://www.gaijinriders.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=5079) thread about using a car unit set up as a Kei car, and after visiting several shops I am in the following situation:

The staff at the AutoTec on Kampachi west speak good English and say that car parts shops don't have a "bike" option in their system. They also do a lot of inhaling and chin scratching at the K-car option. However, they are happy to sell me an unregistered boxed unit for about Y12,000.

My bike dealer as well as the local nirinkan carry the bike ETC (which I dont want) and insist that it's quite impossible to use the car models.

Clem mentioned in the above thread before he moved away that his company did their own setups, and thus had no problems.

So, my question is this: Can anyone recommend a shop in Tokyo/ Kanagawa/ Yokohama/ Yokosuka that will register and/or sell me a Mitsubishi EP-736 set up for a K-car/ bike? I haven't bought it yet and I'm happy to go one-stop shopping.

your're gonna at least have to rent a K-car and use that shaken document to register it. however, recently some guys who are using units registed to k cars have gotten letters telling them to stop. this means the turnpike authorities are on to them. i haven't been keeping up with the latest but i'm sure someone will pipe in with the latest word soon.

Twinrider
03-03-07, 12:38 AM
however, recently some guys who are using units registed to k cars have gotten letters telling them to stop. this means the turnpike authorities are on to them. i haven't been keeping up with the latest but i'm sure someone will pipe in with the latest word soon.

I've heard of one instance of this. Have you heard of more than that?

Regarding "on to them", why they should object to a motorcyclist who's paying the correct toll is hard to understand. It's unreasonable for them to expect that someone with multiple bikes is going to buy a 40,000 yen ETC unit for each bike.

haildamage
03-03-07, 10:13 AM
I've heard of one instance of this. Have you heard of more than that?

Regarding "on to them", why they should object to a motorcyclist who's paying the correct toll is hard to understand. It's unreasonable for them to expect that someone with multiple bikes is going to buy a 40,000 yen ETC unit for each bike.

you are preaching to the choir buddy. i heard about this on TR. some of those guys are really into the ETC thing. i've been told that they can't install one on my RT, although i haven't inquired at many places. it seems the types of bikes which can be fitted is rather limited. i've also heard that a big discount on expressway fees for BIKE ETC equipped bikes is on the way but don't know more.

Twinrider
03-03-07, 10:31 AM
you are preaching to the choir buddy. i heard about this on TR. some of those guys are really into the ETC thing. i've been told that they can't install one on my RT, although i haven't inquired at many places. it seems the types of bikes which can be fitted is rather limited. i've also heard that a big discount on expressway fees for BIKE ETC equipped bikes is on the way but don't know more.

On TR did you hear that more than one person had gotten a letter?

Interesting to hear about the discount. Would have to be pretty hefty to make up the cost of the unit though. If you hear anything more, let us know :razz:

About your RT, I gave Haneda Honda (a BMW dealer) a quick ring and they said ETC installation is no problem (for a mere 50,000 yen :roll:)

haildamage
03-03-07, 10:53 AM
On TR did you hear that more than one person had gotten a letter?

Interesting to hear about the discount. Would have to be pretty hefty to make up the cost of the unit though. If you hear anything more, let us know :razz:

About your RT, I gave Haneda Honda (a BMW dealer) a quick ring and they said ETC installation is no problem (for a mere 50,000 yen :roll:)

no, only one guy said he'd gotten a letter as far as i've read. they told him it was dangerous to use one and that after xyz time he would no longer receive points. i heard the discount might be up to 50%. i spend 1800 yen times 4 days per week so that would be attractive. perhaps, i'll just get an ETC card.

as usual they really f ed up the bike ETC thing. it's so expensive, can't be transferred between bikes, and so on. it's so disappointing! :evil:

Twinrider
03-03-07, 11:30 AM
no, only one guy said he'd gotten a letter as far as i've read. they told him it was dangerous to use one and that after xyz time he would no longer receive points. i heard the discount might be up to 50%. i spend 1800 yen times 4 days per week so that would be attractive. perhaps, i'll just get an ETC card.

as usual they really f ed up the bike ETC thing. it's so expensive, can't be transferred between bikes, and so on. it's so dissappointing! :evil:

Thanks for the info, not so bothered about it now. It'd take a lot of points to make up the 27,000 yen difference in cost between bike and car units but it'd probably be worth it eventually -- if you only owned one bike. They really screwed the pooch on this one.

I heard that the reason it's so expensive is that only one manufacturer is making it. Get a few companies making it, lower the price down to 20,000 otd and they would sell so many more units.

rtfm
03-03-07, 02:52 PM
Is there a non-bureaucratic reason WHY they don't want the car units used? The weather protection is only an issue on open-frame bikes - I'm mounting the unit under my scooter's seat where it will remain dry in a typhoon and the antenna is going under the front fairing. The information it transmits will more likely be "tollRate=3" rather than "I am a bus"

The discount is interesting but I mainly use the Daisan-Keihin. 50% of 150 toll isn't even chump change but 50% off the Tomei to Fujinomiya would definitely change my weekends.

Twinrider: I bought my machine at Haneda Honda, and 50,000 for a quality install is high but not outrageous. Stripping the fairings off, mounting the parts, routing the various wires, splicing it into the electrical system without blowing the thing up, taping and/or sleeving everything, reassembly, paperwork and test drive add up fast. I'm expecting it to take 4-6 hours to install on a mid-size scooter, maybe less if I can get a wiring diagram out of Sato-san :-)

haildamage
03-03-07, 03:03 PM
based on my research, they fear that the rider may be injured if the gates fail to open due to the use of a non-bike ETC model. although, that hasn't been an issue for all of the guys using them. just another example of japan, the nanny state!

Twinrider
03-03-07, 05:58 PM
Twinrider: I bought my machine at Haneda Honda, and 50,000 for a quality install is high but not outrageous. Stripping the fairings off, mounting the parts, routing the various wires, splicing it into the electrical system without blowing the thing up, taping and/or sleeving everything, reassembly, paperwork and test drive add up fast. I'm expecting it to take 4-6 hours to install on a mid-size scooter, maybe less if I can get a wiring diagram out of Sato-san :-)

Haneda Honda's a good shop and the mechanic Ogawa-san knows his stuff. I've bought three bikes from them over the last decade, including my current TDM900. Yeah, I'm sure they're not making a mint on the job. The unit itself is pricey and the install is labor intensive. My biggest objection to it is I have two bikes.

With a Kei unit, you'll pay about 13,000 yen total, including registration. "Installation" consists of snipping the power cord and attaching a 600 yen male cigarette power plug to it, placing the unit inside your front fairing pocket, and plugging it into a female power receptacle that's already installed on your bike, or simply wiring one to the battery.

rtfm
10-03-07, 06:23 PM
My question is this: Can anyone recommend a shop in Tokyo/ Kanagawa/ Yokohama/ Yokosuka that will register and/or sell me a Mitsubishi EP-736 set up for a K-car/ bike?

So, the answer would be "no"? Clem was the only one who did ETC setups, and he's gone now?

haildamage
10-03-07, 06:47 PM
doh!

haildamage
10-03-07, 06:52 PM
as i understand it, you have to have a k-car shaken document, be it begged, borrowed or stolen. if you have a friend who has a k-car, ask them. it shouldn't cause them any problems. with that any shop should be fine. just register it to the kcar and use it on your bike. it is extremely unlikely that you will be able to register a car unit to your bike anywhere. keep in mind that they may crack down on this practice eventually...

Twinrider
10-03-07, 06:52 PM
My question is this: Can anyone recommend a shop in Tokyo/ Kanagawa/ Yokohama/ Yokosuka that will register and/or sell me a Mitsubishi EP-736 set up for a K-car/ bike?

So, the answer would be "no"? Clem was the only one who did ETC setups, and he's gone now?

Your question's been answered multiple times in detail. Any shop will sell you a car etc unit if you have a shaken document.

haildamage
10-03-07, 06:57 PM
My question is this: Can anyone recommend a shop in Tokyo/ Kanagawa/ Yokohama/ Yokosuka that will register and/or sell me a Mitsubishi EP-736 set up for a K-car/ bike?

So, the answer would be "no"? Clem was the only one who did ETC setups, and he's gone now?

What is there to set up?
Your question's been answered multiple times in detail.

if you have a K-CAR shaken document. i think he doesn't understand that everyone who's done it actually registered it to a K-CAR and used it on their bike. mentioning the actual bike useage will only result in a teeth sucking concert!

rtfm
10-03-07, 07:31 PM
No, I got it. But I wasn't asking for instructions - the K-car stuff is well covered in a post from last year. My question asked for a specific store/name recommendation. Clem said last year that his company did their own setups and therefore had no bureaucratic issues. Getting K-car papers and going to the local AutoTec isn't impossible but if there's a place that does it with less hassle I'll send my business their way.

Twinrider
10-03-07, 07:56 PM
I bought my car's etc at Autotech. I chose my unit, gave them my shaken paper, they fill out the paperwork, rang me up and I was done. I don't think it gets easier than that.

rtfm
12-06-07, 02:23 PM
It's done.

OK, it was done back in April. It's a Mitsubishi EP-736, chosen beacuse the antenna is external, the speaker is internal, and it's nice and thin.

Unit went under the seat, antenna is under the front fairing on top of the speedometer. Everything is well protected and it's completely invisible from outside.

The antenna is NOT waterproof, and as it was designed to be glued to the inside of a car windshield it has to be mounted in the upside-down position. Ordinarily this would allow water to seep in and stay there, but some silicone sealant took care of that headache. Silicone was also used to hold the antenna in place. I was thinking velcro but couldn't find any better than home sewing grade. The silicone holds really well, and can be cut off with a knife if needed.

The antenna had to be offset a few inches to provide clearance for a front fairing cable mount.

The cables went down the left side under the plastic. I wanted to keep the wiring away from the main electrical bundle. It does pass fairly close (15cm) to the spark plug but that doesn't seem to be an issue. Power and antenna are bundled together along with 2 regular wires for future use. (One is going to be a new horn relay fairly soon) Everything is wrapped up in spiroband. Takes a while but provides pretty good protection.

Power came from the clearance light circuit at the front end. The engine compartment cables were too well mummified.

The unit itself is mounted to the seat with stainless truss bolts (the kind with the wide, flat head, and don't forget the LocTite). The mounting kit is pretty good but there wasn't much support in the center, so I added 2 sheets of hard rubber that prevent bending things. The cables enter the seat area through a 12mm hole which is a potential leak point but it's pointing backwards and out of the spray zone. There's enough cable in the storage area to allow easy connections - necessary because the cables have to be unplugged and unthreaded before the seat can be removed. I left enough of a loop in the engine compartment so you can lift the seat ~20cm but I still plan to remove it myself before leaving the bike at the mechanic for anything.

Total time, including a 50 yen test ride, about 3.5 hours. One hour of that was R&R of all the plastic bits.


http://aitokyo.com/images/other/etc-unit.jpg

http://aitokyo.com/images/other/etc-helmet.jpg

http://aitokyo.com/images/other/etc-ant-mount.jpg

http://aitokyo.com/images/other/etc-antenna.jpg

Twinrider
12-06-07, 02:51 PM
I don't know why you went through so much trouble. If you had gotten the Mitsubishi unit James K recommended with the internal multidirectional antenna you could have just velcroed the unit in a fairing pocket like he did and be done. Installation time 5 minutes and easily transferable to another bike.

Geezer
12-06-07, 03:45 PM
Mine is also all-in-one, mounted inside the front fairing. It's been working great for 2 years!

rtfm
12-06-07, 04:15 PM
I don't know why you went through so much trouble. If you had gotten the Mitsubishi unit James K recommended with the internal multidirectional antenna you could have just velcroed the unit in a fairing pocket like he did and be done. Installation time 5 minutes and easily transferable to another bike.
All valid, but I don't have any fairing pockets that would accept it. I could just drop it into the space under the windscreen in a baggie but that's just plain ugly. I didn't want any visible extra bits, but I did want no-fuss convenience and weather protection. You only have to install it once, but you have to deal with your installation every time. Although I do remove the card at the end of the day it is secure (and invisible) enough that the card could just stay in the thing.

And I only have one bike :-)

cmac
12-06-07, 04:29 PM
Good low maintenance stealth fitting.
I keep mine in my tank bag and do sometimes get fed up with the plug and unplug routine.

Twinrider
12-06-07, 04:32 PM
Good low maintenance stealth fitting.
I keep mine in my tank bag and do sometimes get fed up with the plug and unplug routine.

So move it to under your seat and leave it plugged in :idea:

cmac
12-06-07, 04:39 PM
No room under there TR. Full of stuff that makes the bike go. :?
The only space is in the tail cavity and I don't trust it being behind me.
Might have to fit it into the front fairing as I'm rebuilding. :idea:

Twinrider
12-06-07, 04:41 PM
All valid, but I don't have any fairing pockets that would accept it. I could just drop it into the space under the windscreen in a baggie but that's just plain ugly. I didn't want any visible extra bits, but I did want no-fuss convenience and weather protection. You only have to install it once, but you have to deal with your installation every time. Although I do remove the card at the end of the day it is secure (and invisible) enough that the card could just stay in the thing.

And I only have one bike :)

The Mitsubushi unit I referred to should work just as well under your scooter seat as it would in a fairing pocket. Btw, what kind of scooter are you riding? I never heard of a 250 scoot without a front pocket.

Blue Star
12-06-07, 04:43 PM
Good low maintenance stealth fitting.
I keep mine in my tank bag and do sometimes get fed up with the plug and unplug routine.

So move it to under your seat and leave it plugged in :idea:

I use the tank bag option now, but would prefer if the ETC unit will work from under the pillion seat. Its the non-anteena panasonic one.
Any idea's ?

Twinrider
12-06-07, 04:46 PM
No room under there TR. Full of stuff that makes the bike go. :?
The only space is in the tail cavity and I don't trust it being behind me.
Might have to fit it into the front fairing as I'm rebuilding. :idea:

It'd be worth trying once in the tail cavity. Just go through one the toll lines that are for both ETC and non-ETC. If it doesn't work, pay cash and move it back to your tankbag. Later perhaps mount it in your front fairing using a waterproof tupperware container like Tony's got.

I use the same ETC card for both my car and two bikes so I like it in a location that's easy to access. That said, I might throw the unit under my TDM seat this weekend just to see how it'll work.

Geezer
12-06-07, 04:57 PM
I use the tank bag option now, but would prefer if the ETC unit will work from under the pillion seat. Its the non-anteena panasonic one.
Any idea's ?
Any metal in the direct-line path between your antenna and the tollbooth sensor may interfere with the communications, so putting it under the seat is iffy. But you can have glass or plastic in the path, so I mounted mine inside the front fairing, jammed between the instrument pod and the headlights. Requires tools to access, but I only have the one vehicle, so I just leave the card in there. It's completely invisible, so no worries.

Twinrider
12-06-07, 04:58 PM
I use the tank bag option now, but would prefer if the ETC unit will work from under the pillion seat. Its the non-anteena panasonic one.
Any idea's ?

Like I suggested to Cmac, try it once under your seat in a dual payment line.

Twinrider
12-06-07, 05:02 PM
Any metal in the direct-line path between your antenna and the tollbooth sensor may interfere with the communications, so putting it under the seat is iffy.

The seat's just plastic so it shouldn't interfere right?

Geezer
12-06-07, 05:28 PM
Any metal in the direct-line path between your antenna and the tollbooth sensor may interfere with the communications, so putting it under the seat is iffy.

The seat's just plastic so it shouldn't interfere right?
I don't know. Depends on how much metal there is in the seat area, how deep you mount it, etc. Plus the fuel tank and other bits and pieces may be in the direct line of sight.

The design parameters for these units assume that it's mounted right in front of the car, behind only the windshield.

Anyway, like you suggested, try it. It's iffy, but it could work.

rtfm
13-06-07, 12:32 AM
Btw, what kind of scooter are you riding? I never heard of a 250 scoot without a front pocket.
There is a front pocket, but it's not deep enough to take the main unit. You can see it on the left side of the bracing (bike's right). The radiator is above the wheel on this model so I don't get a big glove box. I DO get a completely flat floor instead of the usual hump to cover the rad and airbox, which I'll take any day over fairing pockets as I can put a week's worth of groceries or a huge bag of camping stuff there.

Twinrider
13-06-07, 01:05 AM
I can put a week's worth of groceries or a huge bag of camping stuff there.

All right, looking forward to seeing it in action on the next big camping trip ;)

EvilTwin
13-06-07, 09:30 AM
Another doable way to mount 'em if you have some open space under your fairing is to mount the ETC unit into a tupperware/rubbermaid container, then mount the container to the inside of the fairing bit. I'm actually planning on fabricating something similar with a small locking box that I can fit inside my triple tree behind the headlight.