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Thread: New Ride. Ducati Diavel

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diabolik View Post
    Hi man are u back?

    Hopefully next weekend could be good time to fire up the Diavel(s) and Triumph and who ever wants to join !!!,,
    Leaving sunny California this morning , up for a ride next weekend if u are free

  2. #22
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    Mar 2012
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    Default New Ride. Ducati Diavel

    So here's the big question, did remapping your ECU void your warranty?
    Getting to the Summit is Optional, Returning home is mandatory
    Life begins at 155mph

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by racer162 View Post
    So here's the big question, did remapping your ECU void your warranty?
    I doubt it. I have the original Jp spec map so i can reverse it any time.

    My dealer rode my bike in its current state to see the difference and he didnt say shit about warranties being voided by it.

    He just asked me where to get a tune boy and if he could call on me for help on how to instal it

  4. #24
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    Default New Ride. Ducati Diavel

    Great info! Ill pass the information along thanks
    Getting to the Summit is Optional, Returning home is mandatory
    Life begins at 155mph

  5. #25

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    Firstly congrats on the new bike and glad you are happy with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by AML View Post
    Ill be honest, this product makes Power Commander or any other similar products obsolete. (having said that Rexxer is another similar option, but you have to remove your ECU and send it to them)
    So you can make a separate map for each gear and each cylinder? If not then it definitely does not make the Power commander obsolete.
    I have used Tuneboy and PCV/PC III and others and most work, it is more about preferences/features.

    Your bike also does not make 170hp until you have measured it. No two bikes react exactly the same to mods. Happy to hear
    you feel the bike has more power, but guesstimates and reality can be quite different.

    Quote Originally Posted by AML View Post
    It works on any bike (but you have to buy a new key for every new ECU), one unit will work on multiple bikes (with keys), and they are constantly updating it.
    They are currently working on a smartphone app that will allow you to make real time adjustments to your mapping (the unit has wifi) if you leave it plugged in and go for a ride.
    If i wasnt for this, i wouldnt have bought the Diavel to be honest. It was the only way to unlock the bikes Japan specific restrictions.
    Does not work on BMW's nor most Harleys. Great feature, if you are out on the road to play with your mapping and not watch the road or traffic.

    Quote Originally Posted by AML View Post
    I also still have the original Jp mapping so when i do my shaken i can just re-install the jp map. (Then switch back after)
    PCV has map swapping so no need to carry a PC or reprogram anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by AML View Post
    Only negatives are slow response from the guys who make the product. But for me anyway, they have been ok.
    Last time i deal with them, it was about 3 weeks, if at all. Hope they have improved.
    Apexmoto Inc - Dyno tuning, engine/chassis/suspension upgrades, repairs, shaken, tires & changing with balancing, graphics printing, stickers, media blasting, painting & powder coating.

  6. #26

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    Not sure how far TB can go in terms of mapping. I think it would be necessary to talk to TB to see if it is possible to do what you asked.

    Im not a hardcore tuner or anything, i just wanted a bike without restrictions. And thanks to TB i have that.

    170hp is what you are supposed to get (at the crank) after installing a full exhaust and a free flowing air filter. At the wheel it will probably be closer to 140hp. (Stock, the diavel is supposed to be 162bhp)
    A massive difference from what Jp stock is (110bhp)

    Also, im using the stock mid pipe which might be more restrictive than something else. And like you said, every engine is a little different.

    Im planing on taking her down to sachiura naps for a dyno run once ive done my first oil change.

    Numbers aside, thanks to TB and the cheap, yet awesome CW slip on, my bike has been completely transformed into something that's fun to ride now.

  7. #27

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    Good idea on the dyno time. Gives you a reference for any future mods you might do, down the road.
    Hope to see you out on a ride some time.
    Apexmoto Inc - Dyno tuning, engine/chassis/suspension upgrades, repairs, shaken, tires & changing with balancing, graphics printing, stickers, media blasting, painting & powder coating.

  8. #28

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    Finally got my bike on a dyno for a power check, and it was a better result than i expected! Got 148hp a the wheel.



    Changed the air filter before hand, to the ducati performance one. Everything else is same as before, slip on, tune boy ECU remap.

    Tune Boy also announced some updates coming out.

    1. will be the ability to load up multiple maps onto the ECU so you can switch between them whenever you want.
    (so you could have seasonal maps or an economic map for touring, and a performance map for fun)

    2. new software and a smartphone app that will let you tune your bike in real time. Just leave the unit plugged into the bike, start up the app, link via wifi, and take the bike for a run. Software will remap the ECU accordingly, in real time, creating the perfect map for each individual bike.

  9. #29

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    148 is a big improvement on 110! Very cool.

    Just a point on autotune ( including Dynojets ), it can only tune for the riding style you use (rpm/MAP vs engine speed ).
    So when you ride in the mountains, it will tune for that loading etc, then when you ride in the city it will be different
    so it will tune for that ( if it is left on ). Generally, what i understand is it will give you a better tune that no tune, but not as good as
    you can get if you tune the bike on a dyno ( any dyno ) and turn auto tune off. You could autotune on the highway with roll ons,
    then cruising, then ride in the mountains, then the city and get a good overall tune, but you would pretty much need to do all that, to get anywhere
    close to a tune you had done on a dyno.

    What are the other three runs about? Different bike?
    Apexmoto Inc - Dyno tuning, engine/chassis/suspension upgrades, repairs, shaken, tires & changing with balancing, graphics printing, stickers, media blasting, painting & powder coating.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Shiga, Japan
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    Other way around, Jav - auto tune or any mapping of the riding you do will be a better tune than a dyno tune which is better than no tune...
    The real-time auto tune will be continually adjusting the map to get it closer to your desired A/F numbers, rather than just the "too rich! too lean!" info of the OEM narrow band sensors...

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamikuza View Post
    Other way around, Jav - auto tune or any mapping of the riding you do will be a better tune than a dyno tune which is better than no tune...
    The real-time auto tune will be continually adjusting the map to get it closer to your desired A/F numbers, rather than just the "too rich! too lean!" info of the OEM narrow band sensors...
    I don't want to argue this point, but from everything i have learnt, autotune does not provide anyway near as good
    a tune as a dyno with load cell can. That is in part because it is limited to tuning the parts of the map that you use
    each day ( typically less than 1/3 all settings ) and that it uses incorrect volumetric efficiency tables, that need to be corrected
    before you can even begin to think you can make a proper tune.
    Apexmoto Inc - Dyno tuning, engine/chassis/suspension upgrades, repairs, shaken, tires & changing with balancing, graphics printing, stickers, media blasting, painting & powder coating.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jav View Post
    I don't want to argue this point, but from everything i have learnt, autotune does not provide anyway near as good
    a tune as a dyno with load cell can. That is in part because it is limited to tuning the parts of the map that you use
    each day ( typically less than 1/3 all settings ) and that it uses incorrect volumetric efficiency tables, that need to be corrected
    before you can even begin to think you can make a proper tune.
    Let's discuss, not argue then :)

    That may be deficiencies with a particular system but the principle is sound, and for everyday driving should produce the best map throughout the rev range. Should also take into account seasonal changes in air temp etc.

    Dynos only tune for WOT, no? And can't account for any ram air effect...

    Looking at my logs for riding the TL (on the street) I rarely went WOT and certainly not in the lower rpm range...

  13. #33

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    Still not 100% on what the tune boy will do, but ive been told the app will enable the user to select what kind of tune you get. So if you want maximum performance it will tune it to that effect. You can also keep that tune as your main tune and unplug the unit after its done writing.
    I believe having each bike tuned individually is far better than using generally available maps, and even better than a single tune done on a dyno, done on just one day.

    With an autotune you could make your own maps each season (changing weather and temps affects internal combustion engines quite a lot) an load maps up when you see the weather and conditions change.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jav View Post
    148 is a big improvement on 110! Very cool.

    What are the other three runs about? Different bike?
    Same bike, same dyno run, just power checked at crank, (top one, 161.2 hp) and dont remember what the other two are.

    147.8 is rear wheel hp. (third one)

  15. #35
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    Mar 2012
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    Kyoto
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    Default New Ride. Ducati Diavel

    Basically tune boy will allow you to remap your ECU and depending on the bike there other diagnostics and mapping avaliable.
    Getting to the Summit is Optional, Returning home is mandatory
    Life begins at 155mph

  16. #36
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    Dec 2008
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    Shiga, Japan
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    Quote Originally Posted by AML View Post
    Still not 100% on what the tune boy will do, but ive been told the app will enable the user to select what kind of tune you get. So if you want maximum performance it will tune it to that effect. You can also keep that tune as your main tune and unplug the unit after its done writing.
    I believe having each bike tuned individually is far better than using generally available maps, and even better than a single tune done on a dyno, done on just one day.

    With an autotune you could make your own maps each season (changing weather and temps affects internal combustion engines quite a lot) an load maps up when you see the weather and conditions change.

    Probably just a different target AFR, 13 vs 14 : 1 for example...

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamikuza View Post
    Let's discuss, not argue then :)
    That may be deficiencies with a particular system but the principle is sound, and for everyday driving should produce the best map throughout the rev range. Should also take into account seasonal changes in air temp etc.
    Dynos only tune for WOT, no? And can't account for any ram air effect...
    Looking at my logs for riding the TL (on the street) I rarely went WOT and certainly not in the lower rpm range...
    No, most modern dyno's, like the unit we have at Apexmoto, have a load cell. Allow us to reproduce a wide range of loads
    that you would likely see on the street. Also, it is easy to adjust a fan to blow air at whatever speed you want to an air inlet,
    so ram air is not really an issue. With our main fan ( 12,000 CFM ), when it is turned to 100% you pretty much have to hold onto something
    to not get blow off the dyno. We can overdrive to 200% when necessary with the controller we have.

    Almost all autotunes have a limit on what they can correct, otherwise they could make a mistake and cause your engine to self destruct
    ( too lean ), or foul plus ( too rich ). So they often cannot correct for the bigger tune problems.

    With the dyno you can adjust the rpm or MAP up and down for any given map cell, and determines best performance/fuel mapping.
    The auto tune only gets to see accel or decel at different times, so there is a lot of guesstimating involved.

    With autotune you must use a good base map, otherwise it may not be able to work out a tune.

    With autotune, if something on your engine is amiss, it will make a small problem worse, by trying to compensate so 2 problems not 1.
    Ride in the mountains and you get a tune, that will not suit the city, when you ride there ( unless you leave it on all the time ).

    There are many more benefits to dyno tuning, including it being much easier to know when the bike is detonating, which most autotunes would
    have no idea off ( again, hence why makers try to limit its ability ).

    With dyno tuning, you can have as many target A/F's as you want. Set to 13:1 for max power in areas of the map where accel is happening.
    Set to 14:1 in the crusie area's of the map etc etc.
    Apexmoto Inc - Dyno tuning, engine/chassis/suspension upgrades, repairs, shaken, tires & changing with balancing, graphics printing, stickers, media blasting, painting & powder coating.

  18. #38
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    Sounds like they do exactly the same thing to me

    Dyno would be better for someone wanting it done once and not wanting to, or not having the interest in learning how to fiddle with it, is how I see it.

  19. #39

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    Just a wee update on the tuning side.

    Another tuning company called "Open flash Performance" just launched a tuning tablet and some maps.

    Much easier to use than tune boy as the tablet stores and displays all the info you need. Just plug it in and off you go. http://www.openflashtablet.com/Motor...let/index.html

    If i didnt have the tune boy i would probably get this.

    They also have some custom made slip ons for the diavel.

  20. #40
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    Mar 2013
    Location
    Kanazawa
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    6

    Question Questions about Tuneboy

    Quote Originally Posted by AML View Post
    So, I sold my Fazer (the jp restrictions just weren't cutting it for me) and got a Ducati Diavel.
    Hello AML,
    this thread is really interesting to me. I bought a used Ducati Monster 696 (2008) a couple of years ago after not riding for a decade or more. It has the Termi slip ons (see the pic) and came with the Termi ECU. Basically, the Termi ECU made the thing almost unrideable. It ran very lean unless you were revving over 7000RPM - fine for the track maybe, not much fun on the road. So I switched back to the stock ECU while keeping the Termis on. Everything is so much better but it's certainly underpowered below 4000RPM. I think this is because this is where they test emissions (around the 3500RPM range).

    Recently, I've been seriously thinking of getting a Yamaha FZ-09/MH-09 (or Hypermotard - very different I know!), but the universal comments about the bouncy forks and choppy throttle are making me think I should wait for an R model or a generation 2 model. In the meantime, I'm really interested in the Tuneboy, improving my ECU, and perhaps waiting for the Yamaha in 2016. I hope you don't mind me asking some basic questions.

    I understand that Tuneboy can remap the ECU, but I understand there's a type of ECU/fuel-injection called 'closed-loop'. My understanding is that 'closed-loop' measures the exhaust gas output which it feeds back to the ECU, and it is this that controls the injection of fuel rather than the RPM. And in such systems there is an RPM cut-off below which the ECU can't be changed whatever you do. I'm wondering if this is the case or if TuneBoy can make changes below that threshold. Also, perhaps the Termis don't enable the exhaust gas to be measured, or perhaps the Ducati's aren't closed-loop. If I can't tune below 5000RPM it might not be worth the effort. Also, a very common comment about TuneBoy is that their after-service is basically non-existent - once you get the device you're on your own.

    On the other hand, maybe it's worth getting if I can remove the Japanese restrictions. Can you give me any ideas what these restrictions are? Or would they only apply to a more powerful bike like the Diavel?

    Also, I'm interested regarding shaken. I had no difficulty passing my shaken even with the wrong pipes on which I'm sure make too much noise. Perhaps it depends on your dealer.

    Thanks!

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    (bag stays on by powerful magnets plus duct tape under tank).

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