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Thread: Tunnel Collapse on the Chuo

  1. #1

    Default Tunnel Collapse on the Chuo

    It seems a section of a tunnel on the Chuo collapsed killing a number of people.
    If this had happened in the evening, i think the casualties would have been a lot higher.
    Japanese rescue authorities did their usual incompetent best.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20571218
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  2. #2
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    sad accident. its hard to say whether the rescuers acted appropriately or not, but it is often the case that it is easy to criticize with the benefit of hindsight and information that wasnt available at the time rescue decisions or indecision were being made.


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    I noticed Saturday morning via the Jartic site that there was minimal traffic on the Chuo. If this had happened just a couple weeks earlier the tunnel would have been packed with cars and no doubt some motorcycles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jav View Post
    It seems a section of a tunnel on the Chuo collapsed killing a number of people.
    If this had happened in the evening, i think the casualties would have been a lot higher.
    Japanese rescue authorities did their usual incompetent best.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20571218
    Jav I am pretty sure you have no information that we don't have as to whether the the competence of the rescue authorities had a bearing on the situation. I dunno maybe even applaud the rescuers who clearly have taken risks to get the 9 dead out of there.
    "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then you probably haven't heard the news."

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by chozzer View Post
    Jav I am pretty sure you have no information that we don't have as to whether the the competence of the rescue authorities had a bearing on the situation. I dunno maybe even applaud the rescuers who clearly have taken risks to get the 9 dead out of there.
    It is my opinion based on experiences in Japan and I strongly question the need for 3hrs when clearly people needed to be rescued.
    Did those 9 people need to die? These questions and others have to be asked.
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  6. #6
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    Default Tunnel Collapse on the Chuo

    In all the time I have been here, I have yet to hear of any disaster where the response from the authorities was anything other than a bureaucratic clusterfuck.

    In last May's horrible bus accident on the Kanetsu, Gunma was to have its first chance to deploy a special super duper medical response team created for just such occasions. All the doctors mustered just fine and the civilian portion of things was going fine, but the interface with officialdom kept them from being deployed to the scene for THREE FUCKING HOURS, by which time practically every victim had been removed from the scene by ambulances and the crack disaster scene physician/nurse response team got to stand their with its collective thumb up its ass.

    I don't even need to see a news story on the tunnel to know that there was some bureaucratic screwup in the response somewhere. I've never seen it not be the case.

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    100 meters of tunnel collapsed and only 9 people died. I would say something had to have gone right for that number to have been kept that low. The real issue with the incident as I see it is not what has already happened and can't be undone, it's what will be done to prevent it from happening again? There are a lot of aging tunnel designs throughout the country that are long overdue for upgrade, a lesson that should have been taken more seriously after 20 people lost their lives in Hokkaido in 1996. Given the moneies collected for the use of these roads there should be no tolerance for these type of incidents.

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    Default Tunnel Collapse on the Chuo

    First they had to spend tons of time and money attempting to make overpasses safe from earthquakes after the '95 Hanshin disaster. All those spring-loaded chained anchor doohickeys plus ripping up a lot of the approaches, filling them with a layer of styrofoam a few feet thick, then building the roadway back on top of them.

    Everything here is reactive instead of proactive, so now that there has been a tunnel disaster they'll most likely start giving the same sort of attention to the tunnels. Japanese officialdom may have a bad habit of locking the barn door after the horse got out, but they generally do a very good job of locking the door.

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    They are always eager to build new dams, bullet train lines and bridges to nowhere but they have neglected maintenance on the infrastructure, they'll check other tunnels and spend a lot of money fixing them up and then after a big bridge collapses they'll start check them. Don't know how the rescue workers performed but the men on the ground who went into that tunnel first were surely brave.

  10. #10

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    Maybe i should have been more clear, in my criticism. It was not aimed at the guys who actually do the work,
    but the decision making layers that control them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdkng103 View Post
    100 meters of tunnel collapsed and only 9 people died. I would say something had to have gone right for that number to have been kept that low.

    It was just plain "luck" that it happened in December when people stop heading out to Yamanashi and Nagano in large numbers. In November the Chuo was pretty jam-packed every weekend with leaf peepers. Imagine if it had happened during the summer...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinrider View Post
    It was just plain "luck" that it happened in December when people stop heading out to Yamanashi and Nagano in large numbers. In November the Chuo was pretty jam-packed every weekend with leaf peepers. Imagine if it had happened during the summer...
    Might not have been just plain luck if the colder temperatures of December caused the concrete to contract or crack...
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    Japanese news reports speculate that the metal fittings suspending the concrete ceiling panels gave way, either due to corrosion or loosening from years of vibration.

    http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T121203003411.htm

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    Default Tunnel Collapse on the Chuo

    I smell a rate increase coming....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinrider View Post
    Japanese news reports speculate that the metal fittings suspending the concrete ceiling panels gave way, either due to corrosion or loosening from years of vibration.

    http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T121203003411.htm
    I like how they identify the guy they quote as a professor, without saying what he's a professor of.

    Anyway, I'm not a professor, but if plain old vibration is the culprit (instead of corrosion), I would expect metal to last longer than concrete. Maybe what happened is the metal fittings created a stress point in the concrete panels, so that's where they cracked first.

    On the other hand, if cold and/or wet weather was responsible, you'd expect the panels near the entrances of the tunnel to crack first, not the ones way inside.
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    Default Tunnel Collapse on the Chuo

    He is a professor of emeritus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinrider View Post
    It was just plain "luck" that it happened in December when people stop heading out to Yamanashi and Nagano in large numbers. In November the Chuo was pretty jam-packed every weekend with leaf peepers. Imagine if it had happened during the summer...
    The timing is definitely fortuitous, I believe the previous weekend was touted at the best of the year for looking at leaves, and you know how they love their leaves, it would have been packed.

  18. #18
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    Default Tunnel Collapse on the Chuo

    A little googling reveals the perfesser is a perfesser of トンネル工学 "Tunnel Engineering". source

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Jinbaiquerre View Post
    I would expect metal to last longer than concrete. Maybe what happened is the metal fittings created a stress point in the concrete panels, so that's where they cracked first.
    Never! Most concrete in Japan is steel reinforced. I would absolutely expect reinforced concrete to
    last longer than steel. If the metal fittings caused stresses that cracked the concrete, that is either
    a design issue or substandard materials being used.

    For the record, I have a certificate in form-work and worked on high rise building and underground
    aqueducts in OZ for a few years, so though i am no expert, I have a decent amount of experience with
    reinforced concrete.
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  20. #20

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    Latest news..........

    Nextco has decided that all prefectures should experience a tunnel collapse, so as to share the pain...............
    The rubble will be distributed in prefectures without tunnels, to be randomly dumped on highways..
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